Oz Report

Mon, Feb 7 2000, 6:00:00 pm EST

AV8

Kenny Brown|Malcolm Jones|Manfred Ruhmer|record|Rich Burton|Robin Hamilton|Scott Weiner|Worlds

Kenny Brown|Larry Tudor|Malcolm Jones|Manfred Ruhmer|record|Rich Burton|Robin Hamilton|Scott Weiner|Worlds

I asked Rich Burton, «indasky», a series of questions about AV8. I really appreciate the time he took to answer them.  His answers are thoughtful and straightforward, and his voice comes through very clearly.  Here is a slightly edited version of his answers:

As you know there was a serious service problem with the Laminar gliders in the U.S. Even though I consider myself a long time friend (24 years) of Larry Tudor I wasn't able to get in touch with him.  Scott Weiner and I started talking about possible solutions to the contact and parts problem.

One solution was to contact Orlando and see if he would allow us to go to Flagstaff and take into possession the AV8 stock of gliders and parts.  We would then essentially liquidate the stock and try to get some money back to Orlando and a little for ourselves.  The real motivation was that we both had Laminar ST's and we wanted to be able to continue to fly them as long as possible.

Just about this time Larry came back on to the scene.  He liked the idea of getting rid of the parts responsibility, in fact, he drove a majority of the parts out to San Diego for us. In June I spent a week in Flagstaff and brought back a couple of more gliders and more of the parts.  Larry seemed excited about the direction that AV8 was going.  He was going on the road to do demos and try for some World records.  Larry was going to do what Larry does best- fly.  I was going to handle the parts.  While I was in Flagstaff we updated the web page to reflect these changes.

By this time Scott wasn't in the picture anymore other then giving me some sales support in the San Diego area.  He started law school at USC in August.  Combine that with a new baby and there goes your flying time.  Other things were happening too.  I started a company called INDASKY to do the shipping for AV8 and we were no longer in the liquidation mode.  (I never really liked that idea anyway) And then there was Larry's no show at the Worlds.

To this day I can't answer any questions about Larry, because I don't know what is happening.  But I had to make some decisions.  One was that if Orlando was still interested in being AV8 and importing Laminar gliders, that I was going to do my best to keep the ball rolling, or should I say "the gliders flying"

Between May and June, ten 99 ST's were ordered so that we would have the new model available.  The first shipment arrived at the beginning of June and the second shipment arrived in late August.  We also brought in more parts to be sure that we could continue to support these gliders.  It's good to have parts anytime.  I'm not sure how good it is to receive gliders at the end of the season though.  That concern has gone away as I only have two left.

This is to answer your question about how many ST's are flying in the US. I do know that there are eight of the new models flying.  AV8 still had some Laminar R (king post) gliders still in stock and they have been sold.

This is what is happening with AV8 at this point.  Orlando is still supporting the company.  I am working as an independent contractor.  All orders are processed through me at this time and I am keeper of the parts.  The web page just went off line a week ago or so. The future of that is unknown at this time.

Right now we have eight MR2000 gliders on order for customers in the U.S. You will see at least three of these at Wallaby in April.  We also have two 2000 13's coming very soon.  I wasn't just making a sales pitch when I said that orders were pouring in for the MR edition.  I think that Icaro was taken by surprise with the orders that are going to Pause, the sail maker who is producing there upgrade sails.  Production time right now is eight weeks.  I will be placing an order for two more MR2000 gliders later today so that we can get them on the production chart.  Regular ST2000's are available in four weeks.  And of course I have two here for immediate delivery.

The word is slowly getting out that Laminar gliders in the U.S. are still alive and a viable alternative for the demanding pilot who wants performance and quality.  Several of the MR2000 gliders that are on order are for people who have been flying the 97/98 models.  I believe that the people who have had contact with me have been happy with the service that they received and they are passing the word.  I don't have an advertising budget but AV8 has placed two ads in the HG magazine, that have been running for several months under "gliders" and "parts".

There aren't any Laminar EZ's in the U.S. that I know of. For right now our (my) focus is on the ST's. We could order an EZ if someone wanted it though.  Icaro is working on a new glider for school use that is scheduled to be released this spring.

Dealerships: or Service Representative positions.  I am willing to talk with anyone who would be interested in being involved with the Icaro gliders.  Right now, I only consider a couple of people in the U.S. as being active dealers.  One is Malcolm Jones and the other is Robin Hamilton.  There is a lot of territory available.

Your question about safe is a hard one for me because I never considered the glider unsafe.  I am aware that there was the perception that the glider was unsafe.  The glider can not be proved statistically any more unsafe then many other gliders.  I have some personal opinions about how this unsafe perception was fed by some people who had personal axes to grind.

What flex wings tumbled this past year?  I would also like to refer you back to what you published from the Manfred Rumor's article about the MR2000 and their reasoning for producing the MR glider option.  I never tweaked my original two ST's because I liked the way that they flew and I don't know enough about what makes a glider unstable.  Other pilots did the tweaking.  It is ironic to me that it is some of the same pilots who lowered their sprogs and increased the length of the pull back who were the most vocal predictors of doom for people who continued to fly the ST. Time has proved them wrong.

I feel that Icaro has taken a healthy step towards the issue of glider modification with the introduction of the MR option.  The orders prove that others agree.

I will tell you this.  I am happy to fly the 97/98 model ST and I still do on occasion.  Given the choice of flying the 97 or the 99 I now prefer the 99. It doesn't roll as fast as the older model and the trade off is that it doesn't take as much "active" flying.  I feel that over the course of a flight the added roll stability makes the glider less tiring to fly.  The dive recovery system feels more active to me also.  Transition from lift into sink is smoother.  The 99/2000 still does the things that I loved with the previous model: it slows down to nothing, it turns flat and slow or you can bank and crank if you want, the sink rate is second to none and the glide is superb.

I flew our stock demo 99^ST with a friend flying a King post Laminar and another friend on a 97 model for over two hours this past week end.  Some of the flying was just hanging out in tight broken lift, but we also covered about 25 miles.  My observations from this weekend and numerous other flights are that the 99^ST has about the advantage in glide over the previous model as the first ST's had over the king post model.  Just in case the harness question comes to mind, the KP pilot was flying with an M2, the 97 ST pilot was flying a Woody Valley and I fly an M2.

Your final question was "How can Icaro have a presence in the US?" My answer is that I will continue with my efforts, however modest they are.  Right now, it may be OK that there is a small society of those who "know". I've really enjoyed the contact that I've had with Laminar pilots over the past few months.  They routinely relate their "I got higher, flew longer, flew further got up when others couldn't and enjoyed it immensely stories".

I noticed that I missed one of your questions, the one about Glen jumping ship.  I don't look at it that way.  Glen had been involved with Kenny Brown for many years and Pac Air.  He received minimal support from AV8 and when Kenny went with Moyes I wasn't at all surprised that Glenn found a new home there.  Any more detailed explanation would have to come from Glen.  Glen remains my personal first pick for a guy I'd like to meet in a thermal.

Hopefully I answered some of your questions.  Please ask more if you need.

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Mon, Feb 7 2000, 6:00:01 pm EST

At home with Dave Sharp

Dave Sharp

Dave Sharp, «Flysharp1», writes:

A few folks thought that Sandia Open June 23-29 was canceled.  Nope that's the Classic.  Yesterday we flew off Sandia late afternoon and I was blessed with lift to 12k and flew the first X-C flight of the year (in the ATOS) and landed close to my home in Edgewood.  I enjoyed a no step landing at 7k MSL.

Meanwhile my wife (Noelle) and kids (Danelle and Ryan) went for a horse ride, to celebrate both the removal of Ryan's cast and the day after Danelle's 9^th birthday.  Well the horse stepped on Noelle's foot, about breaking her toe and Danielle fell off of the horse breaking her left arm, So I'm having second thoughts about getting the kids into hang gliding, not sure they have my genes.

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Mon, Feb 7 2000, 6:00:02 pm EST

Wind surfing weather

Ken Strong|weather

Ken Strong, «strongk», send in a web address for Hood River (Oregon) weather: http://w3.gorge.net/warp/weather.htm.

Proud Supporter of:

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